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python+zope++:: The evil that Zope do?
Posted at 29.Oct,2008 22:22  Comments 2 / Trackbacks 0 / Like this post!
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read for context. Is Zope really evil? For this I have to reminisce to years ago. It was towards the end of 1999 and I was tasked to find a solution to online news site presence.

Trudged the net and found Zope. What attracted me was ZClasses. I was no "programmer/developer". I was really a network guy, who dabbled with perl and the net in my spare time.

Wow, Through The Web (tm) development. Cool.

I did a ZClass that powers the news site. Even cooler. And that ZClass still powers some of the news sites. We're in the process of changing that though.

It didn't take me that long to realize that ZClasses is not the way forward. That made me learn python. And I really thanked Zope/ZClass for prodding me to learn python so that I can make python product to extend Zope.

And now python is everywhere.

It was no smooth sailing. However, there were moments when I reached Zope Zen; times when something clicked.

Such times were when I discovered that using ZCatalog is way better than object{Values, Ids, Items}, or ZODB is not the best storage for counters or data that changes a lot, or don't mess with connection pools and threads, or that zeo is really cool, or ZClasses are best for prototyping, XMLRPC is your friend, ExternalEditor is what every dev must use, and many more.

I was there when runyaga talked about plone. Was there when plone was released. I've tried plone on and off, but have no real sites that's powered by plone.

Why? I dunno. I still prefer sites from scratch, that I can control, that I can manage. Maybe, the real reason was that most of plone's features I don't use.

Until now. I'm still a newbie where plone is considered. But I've deployed intranets based on plone. And some of the reasons stated by lowks re changing visualization do ring a bell.

Now I need to keep abreast with newer technology; grok, repoze + wsgi come to mind.

And my sites with 20 million page view, 300k users per month still run on four zope clients (1G RAM). And I got a site running on year 2000 hardware with 128 M RAM.

So, is Zope evil? Depends, methinks. To me, Zope is not evil. Maybe because I'm knee deep in it? Or neck deep.

Once we've encountered the many zope zen moments, zope really makes sense. Now, with grok, repoze and others that will help zope live a healthy life in the python framework ecosystem.

That's just my rant. Move along, nothing to see here...


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Comments
I agree wholeheartedly

I came to Zope in late 1999 because I had discovered python about 2 years earlier. I was doing web based stuff as an off shoot of programming in Lotus Notes. I saw Zope as a possible tool for doing what I was used to with Notes for projects with little or no budget. (It was close, Zope+Plone is closer.) I taught students python and Zope (and Plone) at a local two year tech college for a couple of years.

I have done things in Zope that probably shouldn't be done with Zope, but...

I lost my objectivity a long time ago. 8^)

JackU  at 30.Oct,2008 21:14
coincidence?

I think not. We were looking for solutions to replace an sites done in domino too - 4.5 iirc.

Although I beg to differ on the zope+plone ~ domino :P

kedai  at 30.Oct,2008 22:13
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